On the occasion of your visit to Entreculturas we would like to know your assessment  of the refugees in Latin America and the Caribbean, mainly, from the migration policies that are being implemented in the most of the countries point of view....

The first thing we should mention is that Colombia, after Sudan, is the second humanitarian crisis in the world, only that international press give more visibility to any other situations and Latin America hardly appears in the European media... The official statistics show about 3 million of internal displaced people in Colombia, regarding the children soldiers, is the second armed conflict in the world with young people involved in the war, as well as regarding Anti-personnel landmines .... It means that the Colombian problem is really serious and there is no point in talking about an internal conflict anymore, as it is a regional matter. All Colombian neighbour countries are affected for this conflict. According to UNHCR information in Venezuela 250.000 Colombian refugees are estimated, although when you get closer the border between Venezuela and Colombia you find a tremendous population growth due to the impact of all the people who reached the country fleeing the Colombian instability.

They are also in Ecuador about 250.000 refugees estimated and about 63.000 in Panama as well as in Costa Rica and the Brazilian Amazon area.

From Plan Colombia implementation in 2000, that was cornering the guerrilla (taking it to the border), the surrounding countries have been involved in the conflict. In Venezuela, for instance, there are kidnappings, children recruitment, extortion to the population, etc. Last march also the recent crisis shows the impact of the conflict in Ecuador.  Actually, the Plan Colombia was promoted by the United States, who with the excuse of anti-drug fight, increased military interventions and worsening a really hard action guideline. The strategy was to go from Plan Colombia to the Andean Regional Initiative (ARI) a militarist regional plan financed by the United States, which in the end was no more than a strategy for weapons sale in the area. Now it's true that with the left turn of the Latin American policies (leaded for the arrival of new presidents to the power) has prevented this strategy development.

In Venezuela, regarding humanitarian matter Hugo Chavez government, in practice plays a contradictory policy that we could describe as "exclusive tolerance", I say "tolerance" because in this country refugees are allowed to entry and they are taken in, but not integrated nor recognized because the State policies keep them excluded. The Colombian conflict has gone through the borders not only in relation with the population displacement but also the Colombian actors in conflict begin to develop alliances with the Venezuelan actors in conflict and that once they are in Venezuela remain under the influence of their original conflict, in an great vulnerability situation due to the fact they are in a foreign country.

 

How is the JRS' work with Colombian refugees in Venezuela? Have they any political implication or do they just give assistance in these refugees basic needs?

When in 1999 the Constituent process took place, Venezuelan JRS was very much implicated at a political level with the aim of influence that an article related to refuge appeared in the National Constitution. After that, we were working in the law proposal for the National Assembly and although the final law was not exactly what we proposed it was a law very respectful with our approach. Following this we had a close relation with the government, but in 2002 after the Coup that removed Chavez for one day and that after that and thanks to popular acclamation Chavez took the power up again, all doors for the dialogue closed for us. From 2002, began the hard line of Chavez policies. And since then, political incidence and negotiation it is being more difficult for us.

So now we are working as usually at a local level, being closer of the organizations working with refugees... and at a national level trying to establish new frames for the dialogue, although this is not an easy matter due to the democratic scenarios closing.

At a local level, the JRS gives assistance to the asylum-seekers through a range of communitarian integration programs, micro credits, legal assistance, women empowerment assistance, children recruitment's prevention programs.

 

 How are relations between Colombia and Ecuador? How does the Colombian conflict affect and which is the job that JRS is carrying out in this border?

From 2006 in Ecuador, JRS has returned to work again at the border because, every time most, this country is being affected for the aerial fumigation of Colombian coca crops problem that it is damaging ecology and the communities in the Ecuadorian side. This practice affects ecology and has generated great displacement of communities seeking for refugee at the Ecuadorian territory and these fumigations are also a public health problem for Ecuador.

Since President Rafael Correa seized the power he tried to find a solution for this matter. Also because this occupied lands for cultivation are used for the FARC members as place to stay, with the corresponding consequences. Correa has established the Plan Ecuador, however from the Ecuadorian JRS' experience is no more than a good statement of intent that needs to be translated into specific policies. (We hope that the new constitution bears it in mind).

Taking this opportunity, JRS is also in Ecuador taking part in the constituting process, making proposal regarding migration and refugee issues. To be honest Correa's position helps in a very good way the JRS impact capacity and the fact that many of the people in the government come from NGOs and Human Rights organizations creates a favourable scenario to form a new State that offers more guarantees.

In Ecuador the JSR supports many migrants and refugee's organizations with the aim than from their possibilities begin a participation process in the country. They also have micro-credit programs in the border areas and give legal support to the people in order to get their right respected.

 

And which is the peculiarity of the expansion of the Colombian conflict to Panama? Which difficulties does the JRS find when the time comes for acting in this area?

Actually, as we mentioned, there is a regional conflict that in every country is expressed in a different way according with the existing relation with Colombia. Regarding Panama, there is a special feature really interesting that has to do with all this Asiatic development matter.

If you see the Latin America map in XX century, the biggest commercial exchanges between the main cities were concentrating in the Atlantic coasts and Panama became a strategic point for trade, which was the reason why the Canal was opened, to make exchange between the Pacific and Atlantic easier. But nowadays in XXI century with the Asiatic development all the American pacific area is becoming a prioritary commercial area and Panama is enlarging the canal.

This situation, together with the Colombian conflict is causing the expulsion of many people towards Panama, even through the border crossing El Darién region. The problem with El Darién is that it is a very sylvan area and for this reason with an easy access towards Panama city, becoming an area to be for many refugees, not only because of isolation but also because of the peculiar "status" than the Government of Panama has made up for them "temporary humanitarian protected". This status is not recognized by the International Humanitarian Law so these people lack of minimum rights, they cannot work, so they have no money to buy food, doesn't have a home, etc. This is a very dramatic situation.

And as if this wasn't enough, in El Darién area live together indigenous with afro Colombian people displaced time ago and although they have the right over a land, they are suffering the extortion of the paramilitary groups and guerrillas that want to drive them out in order to make their access to the Canal bigger and grow their commercial interests (drug trafficking, arms trade, people trafficking, etc...)

It is a really complicated scenario. The social contrast in Panama City is amazing. From an economic point of view  society is very diversified, and this together with the nearness to the Canal- is an ideal breeding ground for the xenophobia signs breaking out due to the great amount of migrants that are reaching Panama. Government has just approved a migratory policy really hard and restrictive.

Panama Political landscape doesn't help either. It is affected for this trade's global dynamic that ends up forgetting the equal development of its own population. One of the Panamanian citizens' most urgent request is the right to work (above all from the refugees, who find too many bureaucratic difficulties to get their work permits)

In this situation, JRS tries to operate mainly in three fields: refugees' confinement, the right to work and children rights defence. But in Panama it is a very complicated situation.

 

And the JRS, is it working in Brazil? Does the Colombian conflict extent also to this border?

Brazil is the fourth border country with Colombia and unfortunately it doesn't escape from the negative impact of the conflict either. JRS is starting procedures to establish it in this border area of Manaus. We have already done a first contact research and this year we will attend different meeting with the Jesuits in this area to find which joint-work could be carried out.

Colombian city of Leticia (right at Brazilian border) is a really critical point regarding internal displacements and from this point, among other places, is from where refugees in Manaus come from. In Manaus is the "SARES", the Jesuit social centre at the border. They were who got in touch with us, knowing about our job in the area, with the aim of proposing us a closing collaboration on the Colombian refugees in Brazil matter.

Personally I believe it is a very interesting challenge, and also necessary, due to the fact that the Colombian conflict is worsening.